During his election campaign, Donald Trump criticized colleges for being too costly, partisan, and woke. “Colleges have gotten hundreds of billions of dollars from hardworking taxpayers, and now we are going to get this anti-American insanity out of our institutions once and for all,” Trump said.
With Trump back in the White House, questions arise about how much of his higher education message will translate into policy. What changes can students and colleges expect?
In the final episode of College Uncovered, Kirk and Jon discuss potential changes in college policies under Trump’s administration. They aim to cut through the noise to ask: What’s next on campus?
For insights, Michael Brickman, a former senior advisor in the Education Department during Trump’s first term, and Ted Mitchell, president of the American Council on Education, share their perspectives. Jennifer Thornton from the Business Higher Education Forum and Maria Flynn of Jobs For the Future highlight the potential quick expansion of apprenticeships under Trump’s policy.
Students who support Trump and those who fear his reelection share their views. Jenson Wu from The Trevor Project discusses how Trump’s second term might impact LGBTQ college students.
TRANSCRIPT
[Kirk] This is College Uncovered. Here’s President-elect Donald Trump criticizing colleges for being too expensive, too partisan, and too woke.
[Donald Trump] Colleges have gotten hundreds of billions of dollars from hardworking taxpayers. And now we are going to get this anti-American insanity out of our institutions once and for all.
[Kirk] Trump’s anti-elite rhetoric resonates with many working-class Americans, contributing to his decisive election win.
[Jon] With Trump returning, how much of his higher education message will become policy? And what does it mean for students and colleges?
[Kirk] This is College Uncovered, a podcast from GBH News and The Hechinger Report, revealing how colleges operate. I’m Kirk Carapezza.
[Jon] I’m Jon Marcus at The Hechinger Report. We’re here to break it all down.
[Kirk] We heard Trump’s views on higher ed. On Election Day, we surveyed voters about their college concerns.
[Voter 1] I hope they make college more affordable. I’m saddled with $66,000 in debt.
[Voter 2] Tuition prices and student debt are major concerns.
[Voter 3] Making education more equitable without debt.
[Kirk] Making college affordable without handouts?
[Voter 3] Yes, but no free handouts.
[Voter 4] More awareness of student debt and programs to help.
[Kirk] Concerns about political agendas in colleges?
[Voter 5] Yes, administrators push political agendas.
[Jon] What will a second Trump term mean for higher education?
[Donald Trump] The time has come to reclaim educational institutions from the radical left.
[Jon] Let’s separate Trump’s campaign rhetoric from reality and explore potential changes in education policy.
Trump’s first term offers clues about his plans, including the controversial Project 2025. Michael Brickman, former senior advisor in the Education Department, shares insights.
[Michael Brickman] This administration will scrutinize higher education programs for value.
[Jon] How can the government ensure transparency?
[Michael Brickman] Transparency is key. Providing good information about student outcomes is crucial.
[Kirk] The College Scorecard, started under Obama, provides insights into student outcomes. The Trump administration added data on program-specific outcomes.
[Michael Brickman] Choose programs based on return on investment. Compare costs and likely earnings.
[Kirk] The Trump administration favored scorecards but opposed gainful employment measures, which assess if education costs justify student earnings. Trump vowed to block it.
American Council on Education president Ted Mitchell sees a contradiction.
[Ted Mitchell] Gainful employment aligns with Trump’s calls for accountability and education-work alignment.
[Jon] Trump won’t continue Biden’s attempts to forgive student loans. In 2023, Biden tried to forgive over $400 billion in student debt, but the Supreme Court blocked it.
[Joe Biden] Millions are disappointed by the court’s decision on student debt. I am, too.
[Jon] Brickman suggests fresh attempts to reduce student loan debt by making colleges accountable.
[Michael Brickman] If students fail post-graduation, institutions should bear the responsibility.
[Jon] Colleges have avoided accountability for poor student outcomes for decades.
[Kirk] Colleges are nervous. Here’s Ted Mitchell again.
[Ted Mitchell] There’s anxiety about whether campaign rhetoric will influence policymaking. Substantive issues could be explored in a Trump administration.
[Kirk] History shows Trump’s rhetoric may threaten college missions and budgets. His first-term immigration policies led to a 12% decline in international students, impacting college finances.
[Ted Mitchell] International students add intellectual diversity and financial support.
[Kirk] Trump promised to maintain pressure on international students and threatened deportation for anti-American actions.
[Donald Trump] We won’t allow colleges to be taken over by radicals. We’ll deport those promoting anti-Americanism.
[Kirk] Mitchell fears a decline in international students would be a tragedy for American campuses.
[Ted Mitchell] Immigrants bring intellectual capacity and eagerness, crucial for building America.
[Kirk] The incoming administration hasn’t made concrete plans deterring international students.
Project 2025 suggests eliminating the Education Department. Mitchell doubts its feasibility.
[Ted Mitchell] Education Department functions are essential, regardless of its existence.
[Kirk] Executive orders and legal challenges could reshape the department’s operations.
[Ted Mitchell] It’ll be a race between executive order and legal action.
[Kirk] Trump nominated Linda McMahon to lead the department, sparking questions about her qualifications and Trump’s promise to close the agency.
[Ronald Reagan] Past presidents also proposed eliminating the Education Department.
[Kirk] Eliminating the department requires congressional approval.
Another question is how the administration will approach campus unrest. Trump criticized colleges for handling Gaza war protests and proposed a free national online college funded by taxing large university endowments.
[Donald Trump] We won’t let colleges turn students into radicals. We’ll offer something different.
[Kirk] Mitchell expects political capitalizing on college cost and politics concerns. He argues colleges aren’t indoctrination factories.
[Ted Mitchell] Colleges should allow diverse viewpoints, even those we disagree with.
[Jon] Trump’s second term may see bipartisan support for expanding apprenticeships.
[Jennifer Thornton] There’s commitment to apprenticeship expansion.
Thornton outlines how apprenticeships offer hands-on skills and paid training.
[Jennifer Thornton] Apprentices are paid and have permanent job offers upon completion.
[Jon] Both presidential candidates support apprenticeships, resonating with voters.
[Kamala Harris] A college degree isn’t the only measure of a qualified worker.
[Jon] Jobs for the Future’s survey shows strong voter support for apprenticeships.
[Maria Flynn] 84% of voters favor expanding apprenticeship programs. Trump’s first term focused on this.
[Jon] Apprenticeships offer alternatives to traditional college education, appealing to those questioning the value of a four-year degree.
[Maria Flynn] Alternatives provide post-secondary education and training, getting people into the workforce earlier.
[Kirk] Dropping degree requirements benefits those unable to afford college.
[Byron Auguste] Degree requirements screen out minorities and rural Americans before skills are assessed.
[Kirk] Ted Mitchell acknowledges the need for pathways beyond college degrees.
[Ted Mitchell] Degrees are proxies for skills, but not the only measure. Bachelor’s degrees remain important, but alternatives are needed.
[Kirk] The “college-for-all” movement is evolving into a “college-opportunity-for-all” movement.
[Ted Mitchell] The choice to attend college should be with students and their families.
[Jon] The gap between degree holders and non-holders fuels partisan divides. Trump’s support from high school-educated voters highlights this.
[Kirk] Trump tapped into an us-versus-them mentality, criticizing academia and threatening funding cuts for non-compliant colleges.
[Donald Trump] We’ll reclaim educational institutions from the radical left.
[Kirk] Accreditors lack political affiliations, but Trump plans to impose “real standards” on colleges.
[Donald Trump] Standards will include defending American tradition, protecting free speech, and offering low-cost degrees.
[Jon] Michael Brickman dismisses fears of Trump restricting campus speech or curriculum.
[Michael Brickman] Conservatives oppose speech restrictions and support civil rights protection.
[Jon] Some academics express concerns about rhetoric and policy threats.
[Kirk] A survey finds 90% of faculty believe academic freedom is under threat. Concerns span the political spectrum.
[Ted Mitchell] Higher education develops critical-thinking citizens to protect democracy.
[Kirk] Mitchell remains idealistic amid political challenges.
[Jon] College-aged Americans slightly favored Harris, but 46% supported Trump, up 10 percentage points from the previous election.
[Sound of crowd at party] U-S-A! U-S-A!
Matthew Trott, a junior at UNC, reacts to Trump’s reelection.
[Matthew Trott] I’m ecstatic. It exceeded my expectations.
[Kirk] What does this mean for college students?
[Matthew Trott] A favorable economy for jobs, buying homes, and starting families.
[Kirk] Students who fear Trump’s win, particularly people of color and LGBTQ students, express concerns.
[Samantha Greene] We’re going backwards.
[Kirk] Samantha Greene, leader of the Black Student Movement at UNC, shares her perspective.
[Samantha Greene] We aim to better our communities. This election marked a milestone and shook black students.
[Kirk] Cody Clark, a senior at the College of Wooster, worries about transgender rights.
[Cody Clark] Transphobia, xenophobia, and racism are rampant.
[Kirk] Clark plans to move to a more welcoming state after graduation.
[Janson Wu] The Trevor Project highlights the impact of anti-transgender rhetoric.
[Janson Wu] The rhetoric harms young people beyond policy implications.
[Kirk] Trump’s rhetoric has a detrimental effect on LGBTQ youth’s mental health.
[Janson Wu] Colleges must ensure access to mental health services for all students.
[Jon] If you or someone you know is in crisis, dial 9-8-8 for the National Suicide and Crisis Hotline.
[Kirk] Thank you, Jon. How would you characterize this presidential transition?
[Jon] Colleges face declining enrollment and revenue amid critical presidential views. The stakes are high for higher education.
[Kirk] The stakes seem especially high for higher ed. Do you agree?
[Jon] Colleges face significant challenges, but may stay under the radar amid broader issues.
[Kirk] Colleges are stepping back from political statements. What will you watch in Trump’s second term?
[Jon] Reproductive rights and other issues affect college students. Young voters emphasize reproductive rights, climate change, and gun laws.
[Kirk] This is College Uncovered from GBH News and The Hechinger Report. I’m Kirk Carapezza …
[Jon] … and I’m Jon Marcus. Thanks for listening to our season exploring higher education politics. College campuses remain central in America’s culture war.
[Kirk] Find all episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
We’d love to hear from you. Email GBHNewsConnect@WGBH.org or leave a voicemail at (617) 300-2486. We may answer your question on the show.
[Jon] This episode was produced and written by Kirk Carapezza …
[Kirk] … and Jon Marcus, edited by Jeff Keating and Lee Hill.
Ellen London is executive producer. Production assistance from Diane Adame.
[Jon] Sound Design by David Goodman and Gary Mott. All music by college bands. Our theme song is by Left Roman from MIT. Mai He is our project manager, and Devin Maverick Robins heads GBH Podcasts.
College Uncovered is a production of GBH News and The Hechinger Report, distributed by PRX, made possible by Lumina Foundation.
Thank you for listening.
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